John grew up in December 1167. He had been at the most 21 and you may possibly more youthful than if their child Joanna came into this world. She may very well was in fact the fresh oldest of all of the college students he fathered by the his various mistresses.

1187 June - John in France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 29 - Henry production to help you The united kingdomt, perhaps having John during the tow 1188 Summer - Henry directs John back again to Normandy, crosses out of 1189 June twelve - John in the Ce Man's when disarmed from the Henry's buy, after which John fled otherwise is actually contributed away getting coverage 1189 July six - Henry I passes away within the France 1189 Aug. a dozen - Richard brings John back into England which have him 1189 Aug. 30 - John married to Isabelle out of Gloucester within Marlebridge 1189 Sep. step three - Richard crowned on Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard directs John on the Wales to help you subdue the fresh new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you can Normandy and you may pushed towards oath to not ever lay foot with the The united kingdomt for a few ages 1190 Summer - Richard goes on campaign [John vacation trips their oath] For the intentions, it’s believed that the very first several months, and also the really probably time for Joanna getting been created, 's the 1187-nine period. 1187 - John uses virtually the year during the France 1188 - John might have gone back to England inside the January, but from the june is distributed back into France, where the guy seemingly have remained 1189 - John seems to be in the France January - August, returning to England during the August when preparing to own their marriage for the 30 Aug. When the John produced don't unrecorded productivity so you're able to The united kingdomt, it appears that the guy spent regarding the 80% regarding their date away from January 1187 up to his marriage, in France . He was will eventually given the State from Mortain, within the Normandy (prior to Richard's coronation).

The above suggestions, considering the months and the fact that Joanna was produced in order to England out-of France within the 1203 for their own wedding to help you Llywelyn, lends credence towards the idea that Joanna along with her mommy was from French/Norman source.

Considering also John's better-known philandering during this time period, there seems to be many candidates into the character regarding mom off Joanna!

Shortly after another type of long research but not, I could discover no shade regarding a beneficial Clemence de Dauntsey into the the brand new info

My personal previous blog post gave all the info you to definitely Paget showed that they was Clemence de Dauntsey, just who married Nicholas de Verdun. We considered that this is the Nicholas and you will Clementia in order to who Henry 111 supplied the new child custody from Susanna (since a beneficial hostage) in 1228. Used to do select but not, the new view of a single genealogist which demonstrably said it…’ I do believe that individuals (the fresh new genealogists) established there are zero instance individual because the Clemence de- Dauntsey. One to character of partner out of Nicholas de Verdun are a mistake by Paget!’

Clemence ce Boteler was given birth to regarding 1175 for the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire

I am prepared to believe that completion, while the subsequent research of your own information of one’s next Clemence turned out a great deal more productive.

Clemence le Boteler married Nicholas de Verdun from inside the 1202 (their second wife after his relationship to Joan Fitz Piers. Mention, that it matrimony is not proven) within Alton, Staffordshire in addition they got one child, Rohese de- Verdun who was simply born inside 1203 or 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).

When the, in reality, Joanna are caused by good liaison ranging from John and you will Clemence ce Boteler (who would had been aged doing fourteen-15 at that time), it could have been very hard to the Le Boteler family to acquire the right husband to own Clemence. In reality particular 10 years citation just before a good ily?) that have a trusting English nobleman and possessions manager, Nicholas de- Verdun. Making away for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had dropped in love with brand new twenty-seven year old Clemence and you will desired to get married their particular, it can was important for John to provide Clemence having particular possessions out of her very own making sure that she became a far more attractive award to have their own husband to be.